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Post by kpnuts on Apr 22, 2019 11:36:10 GMT -7
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Post by mustang1989 on Apr 22, 2019 13:06:12 GMT -7
I'm DEFINITELY in on this one. Lemme see what I can come up with on those bombs Ken.
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Post by mustang1989 on Apr 22, 2019 13:37:55 GMT -7
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Post by leon on Apr 22, 2019 17:05:05 GMT -7
I'll be following along Ken!
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Post by moramarth on Apr 22, 2019 17:08:38 GMT -7
Just remember the real "Belle" is a B-17F, the most noticeable differences being no Bendix chin turret and the waist positions were not offset (in recent movies - e.g. the 1990 "Memphis Belle" "F"s are often played by "G"s with the chin turret removed). I don't know when B-17s stopped being painted in camo colours at the factory. Incidentally, the "Belle" wasn't actually the first aircraft to complete 25 missions, that was 41-24577 "Hell's Angels"; when after 48 missions she was sent back to the US one of those who saw her off was Lt.Col. Ben Lyon, a star of the movie for for which she was named.
Regards,
M
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Post by mustang1989 on Apr 22, 2019 18:45:17 GMT -7
Just remember the real "Belle" is a B-17F, the most noticeable differences being no Bendix chin turret and the waist positions were not offset (in recent movies - e.g. the 1990 "Memphis Belle" "F"s are often played by "G"s with the chin turret removed). I don't know when B-17s stopped being painted in camo colours at the factory. Incidentally, the "Belle" wasn't actually the first aircraft to complete 25 missions, that was 41-24577 "Hell's Angels"; when after 48 missions she was sent back to the US one of those who saw her off was Lt.Col. Ben Lyon, a star of the movie for for which she was named.
Regards,
M
You are correct about that M but what about bomb and interior colors? Aren't those about the same between the later variants? Interesting notes about the Belle and Hells Angels btw.
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Post by kpnuts on Apr 22, 2019 22:56:08 GMT -7
Thanks Joe and M
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Post by moramarth on Apr 23, 2019 2:06:45 GMT -7
Your info on the bombs seemed to be the best I've seen, and is similar to recent RAF (and NATO?) practice; presumably this would be standard for all land-based aircraft.
As to the interior colours, that's as bad as "dunkelgelb" or "Imperial Japanese Navy Grey"!!! There may have been some difference between camouflaged "F"s and bare metal "F"s and "G"s: "With the abandonment of camouflage in late 1943, airframe primer was often, but not always, also dispensed with. However, since subcontractors ran on different schedules and could to a degree set their own standards for surface finishes, it was not uncommon to see partly primed airframes on natural metal aircraft. However, cockpits and crew areas generally continued to be painted as an anti-dazzle measure throughout the war." I understand B-17s were assembled at three different locations, each of which worked to it's own standards (but nothing like as bad as the supply-chain nightmare that was the B-24!). However, the same source (https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/interior-colours-of-us-aircraft-1941-45-part-i/) continues: "Early B-17s had overall Zinc Chromate Yellow interiors, Bronze Green cockpits and navigator’s stations, and Aluminium lacquer bomb bays. For F and G model B-17s, the general rule for ”control cabins” is Bronze Green. Instructions identify the ”control cabin” as the nose section containing the bombardier and navigator, the cockpit including the pilots and top gunner/engineer, and the radio room. Later official specifications for the B-17F revised in August 1944 called for Dull Dark Green in the same areas. Some Douglas-produced B-17Fs possibly had Interior Green control cabins The same 1944 document calls for use of Bronze Green on exterior anti-glare panels of uncamouflaged aircraft. It remains controversial if this instruction was ever followed in B-17 production, most colour photos of the B-17s showing Olive Drab anti-glare. Inner fuselage sides in the nose, cockpit and radio room were covered with green canvas padding. The cabin floor was made of varnished plywood. In high-traffic areas, floors were covered with black rubber mats anti-skid purposes – in the waist, the radio room and the top turret area. The floor in the pilot/navigator cabin was left in natural metal. Pilot and navigator seats were most probably Bronze Green. Aft of the radio room, the fuselage interiors of many early-production B-17s were painted Zinc Chromate Yellow. Later versions of the aircraft, camouflaged as well as natural metal were often left in bare metal with Zinc Chromate Yellow or Zinc Chromate Green bulkheads and longerons. Note that the waist-gun areas were also left in bare metal, presumably because there were no glare problems for the gunners there."
Hope that Helps,
M
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Post by mustang1989 on Apr 23, 2019 8:37:41 GMT -7
Your info on the bombs seemed to be the best I've seen, and is similar to recent RAF (and NATO?) practice; presumably this would be standard for all land-based aircraft.
As to the interior colours, that's as bad as "dunkelgelb" or "Imperial Japanese Navy Grey"!!! There may have been some difference between camouflaged "F"s and bare metal "F"s and "G"s: "With the abandonment of camouflage in late 1943, airframe primer was often, but not always, also dispensed with. However, since subcontractors ran on different schedules and could to a degree set their own standards for surface finishes, it was not uncommon to see partly primed airframes on natural metal aircraft. However, cockpits and crew areas generally continued to be painted as an anti-dazzle measure throughout the war." I understand B-17s were assembled at three different locations, each of which worked to it's own standards (but nothing like as bad as the supply-chain nightmare that was the B-24!). However, the same source (https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/interior-colours-of-us-aircraft-1941-45-part-i/) continues: "Early B-17s had overall Zinc Chromate Yellow interiors, Bronze Green cockpits and navigator’s stations, and Aluminium lacquer bomb bays. For F and G model B-17s, the general rule for ”control cabins” is Bronze Green. Instructions identify the ”control cabin” as the nose section containing the bombardier and navigator, the cockpit including the pilots and top gunner/engineer, and the radio room. Later official specifications for the B-17F revised in August 1944 called for Dull Dark Green in the same areas. Some Douglas-produced B-17Fs possibly had Interior Green control cabins The same 1944 document calls for use of Bronze Green on exterior anti-glare panels of uncamouflaged aircraft. It remains controversial if this instruction was ever followed in B-17 production, most colour photos of the B-17s showing Olive Drab anti-glare. Inner fuselage sides in the nose, cockpit and radio room were covered with green canvas padding. The cabin floor was made of varnished plywood. In high-traffic areas, floors were covered with black rubber mats anti-skid purposes – in the waist, the radio room and the top turret area. The floor in the pilot/navigator cabin was left in natural metal. Pilot and navigator seats were most probably Bronze Green. Aft of the radio room, the fuselage interiors of many early-production B-17s were painted Zinc Chromate Yellow. Later versions of the aircraft, camouflaged as well as natural metal were often left in bare metal with Zinc Chromate Yellow or Zinc Chromate Green bulkheads and longerons. Note that the waist-gun areas were also left in bare metal, presumably because there were no glare problems for the gunners there."
Hope that Helps,
M
Thanks M. Definitely all good information to know.
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Post by kpnuts on Apr 23, 2019 13:53:09 GMT -7
Thanks M great stuff.
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Post by Deano on Apr 27, 2019 14:22:07 GMT -7
Geez, I've read this through a couple of times now and it kinda seems that the possibilities are endless with some tough calls to be made. personally, go with what makes you happy!
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Post by kpnuts on Apr 28, 2019 11:17:53 GMT -7
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Post by leon on Apr 28, 2019 12:48:55 GMT -7
Foil does look good Ken!
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Post by mustang1989 on Apr 28, 2019 14:56:02 GMT -7
Interior progress looks good so far Ken. The foil brings a good dimension to the look of the interior here alright but I'm thinkin' that toning it down a bit would help out with your realism effect. Maybe hit it with some flat clear to dull it down or use Matte Aluminum Bare Metal Foil perhaps? In any case I do like what I'm seeing here.
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Post by kpnuts on Apr 28, 2019 22:35:10 GMT -7
Hi mate yes looking at ref pics I'm going to spray a bluish green over it then chip through it to show the foil underneath.
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Post by mustang1989 on Apr 29, 2019 4:29:41 GMT -7
Hi mate yes looking at ref pics I'm going to spray a bluish green over it then chip through it to show the foil underneath. Looking forward to seeing what you do here buddy.
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Post by kpnuts on May 3, 2019 12:42:17 GMT -7
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Post by leon on May 3, 2019 14:03:06 GMT -7
Always nice to see some color go on Ken!
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Post by Deano on May 3, 2019 17:19:02 GMT -7
Nice work Ken, looks good to me. Looking at it makes me wonder if I have a set big enough to climb into one of these, no creature comforts and fly halfway across Europe in one with every German in the world shooting at it! It was definitely a different time.
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Post by mmthrax on May 4, 2019 7:00:58 GMT -7
That looks great Ken.
Superb detailing.
Carry on sir....
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Post by mustang1989 on May 6, 2019 10:57:41 GMT -7
Very good progress Ken! Sometimes I wonder if this kit has more detailing than the 1/48 scale version of it. Sure looks that way to me.
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Post by kpnuts on May 6, 2019 11:17:24 GMT -7
Is there any way of getting rid of the white stuff you get with superglue, I ask because I'm trying to do the belly turret on the plane which is moulded in clear I'm using Revell clear glue and it just keeps coming apart when I'm handling it whilst trying to paint it (incidentally how do you manage that it's almost impossible I've had to take it off a load of times as the paint seeps under the masking tape and my hands arnt steady enough to do it free hand) anyway i was thinking of gluing it with superglue if I could get rid of the white vapour stuff you get with it.
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Post by mustang1989 on May 6, 2019 19:08:05 GMT -7
Is there any way of getting rid of the white stuff you get with superglue, I ask because I'm trying to do the belly turret on the plane which is moulded in clear I'm using Revell clear glue and it just keeps coming apart when I'm handling it whilst trying to paint it (incidentally how do you manage that it's almost impossible I've had to take it off a load of times as the paint seeps under the masking tape and my hands arnt steady enough to do it free hand) anyway i was thinking of gluing it with superglue if I could get rid of the white vapour stuff you get with it. Good ol' Future floor polish there Ken. I believe Pledge makes it now.
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Post by kpnuts on May 8, 2019 12:52:24 GMT -7
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Post by mmthrax on May 8, 2019 14:01:18 GMT -7
It's a shame you have to close it up, but I guess that's what pictures are for.
Nice work Ken.
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Post by leon on May 8, 2019 14:18:27 GMT -7
Some fine looking work there Ken!
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Post by kpnuts on May 10, 2019 12:31:12 GMT -7
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Post by mmthrax on May 10, 2019 13:42:37 GMT -7
Oh ok. Cutaway. Very cool. I must have missed that bit earlier.
Nice work. The foil does look challenging. I think you're winning though.
Carry on sir....
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Post by Deano on May 12, 2019 3:34:34 GMT -7
Big job with the foil but looks like your pulling it off.
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Post by RetroSpectKustoms on May 12, 2019 17:01:23 GMT -7
Wow, that is a lot of work, but it looks amazing! Very well done.
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